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RPG Laboratory

Your Sheikh,

I started working on different creeds for logovores in my game Emergence, and and it ocurred to me that many logovore beliefs, ambitions, and "lifestyles" should be reflections of the beliefs, goals and lifestyles of the humans that created them.

In Emergence, logovores are our godlike inheritors and their ideologies have a lot to do with our own.

And I happen to know for a fact that gamers are an eclectic lot. I asked one guy to play Planescape with me and he refused to because his god, Shiva was depicted in the game with the alignment, Chaotic Evil.

So before I post something incorrect and offensive about someone else's beliefs or ambitions or lifestyle, I'll post something about mine, so when I get stuff wrong you'll know where I'm coming from, and cut me some slack.

I was born in New Jersey. My mother moved here from Germany. Her mother is from Rostov na Donu, but when the Germans conquered Rostov in WWII, she, and many other young girls, were conscripted to work in a work camp and moved to Munic. Although her family lived in Rostov (in Russia, then The Soviet Union), they were Armenian, and had relatives in Armenia and Kazakhstan.

My maternal grandfather assumed a fake identity during WWII, so I can't say anything certain about him. I think he was the son of a Czech politician, and he escaped execution by changing who he was. He never changed back to his real name, so he must not have had anyone left alive to go back to.

My father was also born in New Jersey. His father was Polish, and his mother was Dutch and French. I didn't know them much, but I think my paternal grandmother was also born in America.

My family grew up nominally Catholic (we only went to church on Easter and Christmas). To this day I still feel that Christianity is this ornate counter-intuitive religion that I know only the smallest bit about.

Incidentally, my father bought D&D when I was 8, he was 36, in 1981, and I spent more quality time with my dad playing D&D in his friends' basement around a franklin stove than we ever spent in church.

My family eventually converted to Episcopal, and became regular church goers, but I was already largely independent, spending my free time staying with friends or at my grandmother's in Jersey City, from where I could take the train 15 minutes and be in the heart of New York City.

I learned about Buddhism, but when I went to University of New Orleans, I converted to Islam. It was because of a tiny chapter tucked way in the back, Sura 109, The Sura of the Unbelievers. Its only six lines long. I can recite it in Arabic without looking. It says, tell the unbelievers that you may never be able to convince each other so just live however you want to live. (I don't know what's wrong with Al Qaeda. It is a small chapter, and it is way in the back. Maybe they just missed it.)

After college I went back to Jersey City and got an apartment with two friends. I met Kemba, the woman who would become my wife, in Manhattan.

Although I have a deep interest in science fiction, for some reason, the majority of my role playing experience has been in fantasy games. About this time was when I got into rules lite games. With Manhattan right across the river, there just wasn't time to play more detailed games. I was working, going out, playing music (I make and play bamboo flutes. Although I can make and play the shakuhachi, I prefer the Egyptian Ney), and when I got a chance, playing some lite RPG. One of my roomates kept bringing back bottles of rum from Jamaica, so I remember we were seldom sober enough to play more complicated games than Risus. (I know its forbidden, but who actually follows it that strictly? A friend of mine from Pakistan once told me, "You write poetry, you play the flute, you drink. There are actually many characters like you all over the middle east. It is part of Muslim culture that these three things go together.")

On September 11, 2001, I was across the river from the twin towers, in Jersey City when they went down. I could see them burning. Kemba was in Battery Park. I was in such shock that I actually still went to work that day.

I moved in together with Kemba in Brooklyn and then we both moved to Atlanta, where we started our marketing business, and finally got married (at the courthouse. She's a Christian, although the church doesn't even see her on Christmas and Easter).

When my wife and I aren't running our business, we can be found playing backgammon in coffee shops. By clicking on my name, you can see a picture of me and my wife at the Marshes of Glynn in southern Georgia.

Recently, my music has gotten me back in touch with gamers. I've joined a band that plays original gamelan compositions, and some of the guys also play RPGs, and I played Persian ney at a wedding and the groom used to role play and is willing to help me playtest Emergence.

Just wondering.

Are you planning on using current beliefs or making up ones that would occur in the future? Or both?

I could really see a technology religion in the near future, especially as MMORPG's increase in popularity and more people spend increasingly larger chunks of their life in a virtual world.

Both

I want Homofidelic logovores that will try to maintain lifestyles that humans would be comfortable with.

I want Mythopoeic logovores that use their god-like condition to act out new version of human mythologies and religions.

Some religions are very forward thinking. Baha'is believe that every thousand years (give or take a few hundred) a emanation of God appears to reveal the scriptures for that age. That could be a creed, (or just a nation, maybe it doesn't allow for enough diversity to be a whole creed).

One creed could be Theotechnic logovores, who spend their resources trying to reproduce figures from human religions. What would you need to create a being that posesses the exact same thought process as Jesus, or Krishna? Could you do it in a virtual world, or would you have to build a physical model? How would you decide Jesus's DNA? If you do recreate him, is that the original Jesus, or the second coming. Muslims also believe in the second coming of Jesus, so a God builder nation that succeeds in making a Jesus will have a very different attitude toward their success based on whether they are Christian, Muslim, or just aethistic hobbyists.

If we really get inside their "heads" we could make up religions that the logovores might have. I'm sure we can make up religions that humans would have had right before the end.

One that comes to mind recently is that we are already computer programs running around in a computer simulation of the Earth. Maybe the logovores are running this simulation and when they let us out, they'll let us take part in their society. Wouldn't that be weird. The Mormons would be right, we would get to "heaven" and then we'd get to be "gods" of our own worlds.

Ideals - or relgion?

I think that Logos would be more of ideals than religions. To some extent, every religion asks for reciprocity and respect for others. How to do so, and what rewards exist for doing so changes. A socialist/communist or Anarchist concept is as good a means to center on as relgious infrences.

For a while now, I've been trying to find a place for Christianity in one of my games. It stands as one of the opposing factions, the opposite of the "Human Purity Project" that stands for transhumanism, genetics research, and the like. On one hand, I belive that it would be a major influnce should there be an exodous from Earth, but I feel bad since they come off as antagonists the way my story-line is going, and I don't want to offend anyone. (Its treated as a "faction", as is techinicaly the Brazillian branch of Catholicism. Other Factions include the USA, China, and the KGB/FSB)

Not that I think its particulary bad to offend. This a creative excorcise afterall. Still, Ideals would be safer.

There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.

You should read The Sparrow

The Sparrow is a novel by Mary Doria Russell about the sole survivor of a Jesuit mission to an alien world.

I warn you, this book got under my skin and really bothered me.

As far as logovores and ideals or religions. I'm married to the ideas of homofidelic and mythopoeic logovores. I decided that there would at least be those two categories even before we had the names Emergence and Logovores. And if a homofidelic logovore nation believes that it is an extra solar colonial extension of the Indian government, then religion will come into it. And the creed of mythopoeic logovores is that as evolutions of human thoughts, it is their duty to depict the highest hopes and dreams of humanity by embodying their myths and religious icons and taking these ideas into the future as valid models of behavior and existence.

I'm not so married to Theotechnic logovores. We could change it to Hero Builders. Hmm, I don't know how to say hero in Greek. Abraham Lincoln would definitely be worth trying to recreate.

I think I've got it

Actually, i belive hero is greek. It means to be like the gods. In short, the anchient greeks celebrated excelence, if not necesarily in absokutes - a winner was a winner, and records of distances/times etc. were not maintained between olympics.

Now if I'm following you, its a question of those logovores that attempt to recreate a human society, and those that recreate a society seen in mythology. One type will recreate the life of Sweedes, and the other will simulate valhalla. Actually attempting to create or follow relgions is a secondary concern. Correct?

There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.

Creeds = Races

What we as humans believe will probably not be what the logovores believe. And even if they did, they would have to act very differently to express those beliefs. What exactly does it mean to come together in prayer if you all exist within the same giant creature and you can download the sermon?

I intend for creeds to serve the function for logovores that racial distinctions serve for fantasy games.

Mythopoeic Creed = Elves

Homofidelic Creed = Humans

Herotechnic Creed = Gnomes

Neobiotic Creed = Chthulhu monsters

Actually the neobiotics were inspired by Gentleman John describing logovores building shoggoths.

And I like the idea that a human can be encoded by logovores, live in space, possess god-like power, and then he finds Cthulhu isn't some horrible incomprehensible monster. Cthulhu is more like a really bad creepy neighbor that you suspect of being a serial murderer.

But the same way there are high elves and grey elves and wood elves, there should be different projects within each creed to build different civilizations based on different ideas and concepts (or misconceptions). And the same way there is more than one high elf city-state in a typical fantasy world, there could be more than one Vedic Mythopoeic Logovore Civilization. One could be just like Vyoman, ruled by a Vishnu figure, with a Shiva and a Brahma figure in the background. One could be ruled by a triumvirate. One could be ruled by an Indra figure. One Mythopoeic Logovore Civilization might take Heaven as described in the book of Revelation as their blueprint, and another, the book of Isaiah (There is a flying saucer in it, right?)

I'm going to start a new blog entry to get out a lot of the ideas that have been rattling around my head or scribbled onto scraps of napkins.