Mutant MACE Lite, a supplemental variant for MACE Lite

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The Mutant MACE Lite rules in non-pdf form

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 12:11.

THE RULES FOR MUTANT MACE LITE:

Mutant MACE Lite is an optional variant to be used with the Martial Arts Card Engine Lite Edition. Mutant MACE Lite cannot be played by itself and can only be played as optional rules to MACE Lite. The rules in this MACE Lite variant are used to represent mutated animal fighters in the world of MACE.

If Mutant MACE Lite is to be used with MACE Lite, at the start of the game, before each player has drawn their 5 card hand, the full deck is shuffled and each player draws one card to determine the Animal Mutation for their animal mutant fighter. The face value of the card drawn determines a specific Animal Mutation, with each Animal Mutation having a special rule that alters gameplay for the mutant animal fighter. After an Animal Mutation is determined, the player determines what type of animal their mutant fighter is, as well as how their Animal Mutation works for their fighter. Cards drawn to determine mutations are then returned to the deck, the full deck is re-shuffled, and the players draw their 5 card hands to start the game of MACE Lite as usual.

Use the following chart for which card value determines which Animal Mutation: Joker = Feral Fury, Ace = Heightened Metabolism, King = Physical Superiority, Queen = Regeneration, Jack = Invigoration, Ten = Lightning Reflexes, Nine = Bestial Strength, Eight = Animal Magnetism, Seven = Acrobatic Agility, Six = Natural Armor, Five = Increased Movement, Four = Great Size, Three = Stretching Limbs, Two = Poisonous Venom.

The following rules are for each Animal Mutation, and their use overrules the regular use of certain rules from MACE Lite when Mutant MACE Lite is used as a variant:

Feral Fury = If you play a Joker card, you may choose to have it count as twice the value of the top card in the discard pile instead of being equal to the value of the top card in the discard pile. However, if you play a Joker card at twice it's value for anything other than taking Damage, you do not draw a card to replace it.

Heightened Metabolism = At the start of the game when drawing your 5 card hand, you draw a 6 card hand instead of 5. However, the first time you play a card, you do not draw a card to replace it.

Physical Superiority = At the start of the game when drawing your 5 card hand, you draw a 7 card hand instead of 5, then discard 2 cards from your hand before the rest of the game begins.

Regeneration = When you discard two cards due to Damage, draw another card. If that card has a higher value than either of the cards you discarded, you may keep the drawn card in your hand, otherwise you must discard it.

Invigoration = Once per Combat, when your hand is down to one card, you may choose to draw a card which is then added to your hand. Once this is used during a Combat, it may not be used until the next Combat.

Lightning Reflexes = Whenever you play a card for Momentum or a Momentum Boost, increase the value of the card you play by +1. The additional +1 may not be counted to Move +1 space due to Momentum Boost.

Bestial Strength = Whenever you play a card to Strike, increase the value of the card you play by +1.

Animal Magnetism = Whenever you turn over a Charge card in order to use it to Blast, increase the value of the card you turn over by +1.

Acrobatic Agility = Whenever you play a card to Dodge, increase the value of the card you play by +1. The additional +1 may not be counted to Move +1 space due to Dodge.

Natural Armor = Whenever you play a card to Block, increase the value of the card you play by +1.

Increased Movement = Whenever you Move due to Momentum Boost or Dodge, you may choose to Move +1 space in addition to the number of spaces you Move.

Great Size = When you suffer Knock Back, the number of spaces of Knock Back is equal to a quarter (1/4) of the Damage taken instead of half (1/2) the Damage taken.

Stretching Limbs = Your fighter's Reach counts as two spaces rather than one when making a Strike, but another fighter counts your Reach as one when they are making a Strike or Move.

Poisonous Venom = Once per Combat, if another fighter discards a card from their hand due to Damage from your Strike, you may choose to play a card from your hand. If so, the fighter receives Damage equal to the value of the card you played, then you draw a card to put in your hand to replace the card you played. Once this is used during a Combat, it may not be used until the next Combat.

Optional Rule: Mutant animal fighters may have more than one Animal Mutation if all players involved agree. If so, players draw more than one card when determining their Animal Mutations at the start of the game, with the amount of cards drawn equal for all players involved. If the same Animal Mutation is drawn more than once by a player, it is not counted and another card is drawn in it's place to determine a different Animal Mutation instead.

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Questions for feedback

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 12:18.

A couple things I was pondering for these rules:

Should the various Animal Mutation +1 bonuses to Move, Block, Strike, Dodge, Momentum, and Blast be +2 bonuses instead? I wonder if they are perhaps too weak at +1 when compared to other Animal Mutations. Then again, making them +2 may make them too strong compared to other Mutations.

Is Poisonous Venom too strong, even if it can only be used once per Combat? Perhaps the Damage of a card played for Poison should be equal to the card value divided in half (round up), so as not to make Poisonous Venom too powerful.

That's pretty much all I can think of for now, but any other suggestions would be appreciated.

Peace, Errin : )

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A quick reply

Submitted by Relentless96 on Thu, 2007-09-13 16:55.

I am typing this before I go to work, so I have to be brief. Sorry I have not replied sooner, but I have been really busy and haven't been at the computer.

I really like the way the Mutant MACE feels, as it plugs straight into the standard game with no fuss. This in my mind is a complete success, as players will be able to play with your expansion without any learning curve at all.

I am keen to playtest your rules, as I think that the card effects are balanced, except for a couple that are under-utilised and some that are extremely powerful.

In regards to card bonuses, if you go to +2, make them specific in circumstance. For example, take the Bite example from my previous suggestion, which adds +2 Damage if opponent Blocks. This is because a +2 in MACE is a humungous advantage, let alone +1. However, these bonuses are balanced in that everyone shares some kind of advantage.

For the Lightning Reflexes, I think you should allow an additional +1 Move for Momentum Boost, it should help balance it against the other combat powers.

For Bestial Strength, try increasing the Damage by 1, not the CV. The reason being is that it allows for a stronger attack, but does not render Dodge (which works off CV) useless compared to Block. I also recommend this for Animal Magnetism.

Poisonous Venom is definately overpowered. If an opponent only suffers one Damage after blocking your Strike, you can discard ANY card (an Ace of Diamonds) to deal extra Damage. If I were to use my general point system for Fighter Card abilities, this would rate a 5! Maybe think about how you could do it differently.

Would type more, but have to go, I really like this, will comment more later. Cheers!

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That helped a lot

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 17:59.

Thanks for the quick and easy feedback, Aaron. It helped answer a lot of questions I had for which direction to take Mutant MACE Lite.

I will stick with the +1 for such bonuses instead of a +2, as +2 is too powerful. What I need to do is rethink some of those type of Animal Mutations. I removed the +1 space movement from Lightning Reflexes and Acrobatic Agility because I thought doing such would balance out better with Increased Movement. And I was thinking of Bestial Strength in the terms Strike vs Block, not Strike vs Dodge.

Here's what I'm thinking of maybe doing: Get rid of the Increased Movement mutation, then allow Lightning Reflexes and Acrobatic Agility to include a +1 Move bonus without the current restriction on such. Then, Bestial Strength becomes +1 to any Damage (from Blast or Strike) instead of +1 to Strike. The +1 to Strike bonus will be a new Animal Mutation called Sharpened Senses. If I do this, should I have it included with Sharpened Senses that the +1 to Strike does not count as a +1 to Damage? I'm a little unclear on the Strike-Damage correlation. I believe it goes that if a Strike is not successfully Blocked or Dodged, then you receive Damage equal to the value of the card used for Strike. If that is indeed the case, such a +1 from Sharpened Senses should just factor in scoring a successful hit, not increasing Damage. Then again, Animal Magnetism increases Blast by +1, which would include chance to hit as well as Damage, if I've got the rules down right. Perhaps I don't need to have the restriction to the +1, just like I plan to remove the restriction to the Lightning Reflexes and Acrobatic Agility increasing Movement. It might just work out if Animal Magnetism adds +1 to hit and Damage for a Blast, Sharpened Senses adds +1 to hit and Damage for a Strike, and Bestial Strength adds +1 to Damage for a Blast or Strike. Now that I think of it, maybe I need to change Sharpened Senses to Natural Weaponry, and then make another Animal Mutation called Sharpened Senses that will be a +1 to hit with a Strike or Blast, but not for Damage. If I did add Natural Weaponry to the list, I'd probably get rid of Invigoration or Regeneration, probably changing the name of the Invigoration rule to Regeneration, and getting rid of the Regeneration rule.

That just leaves Poisonous Venom, which I realized is way too powerful. Feral Fury is supposed to be the most powerful as it is the toughest to draw. I see three options for Poisonous Venom:

A)You can still play a card from your hand, but it is worth half of it's card value for calculating Damage.

B)Instead of playing a card from your hand, you must turn over a Charge card as the extra Damage card.

C)After everybody involved has drawn their 5 card hand at the start of the game, you draw the top card of the deck, look at it, then place it aside face down. That card is the only card you can use for Poisonous Venom. When used, it is flipped over and it's value counts as the Damage. Alternately, no card can be drawn as the Damage card for Poisonous Venom until it is actually used, upon which the card used to calculate Damage is randomly taken from the top of the deck.

I had one other option for Poisonous Venom, but it involves radically changing the idea for it. Basically, instead of having anything to do with causing extra Damage, Poisonous Venom would be used once per Combat when another fighter receives Damage due to the Strike of a mutant animal fighter. When used, it causes the Damaged fighter to discard their entire hand and replace it by an equal amount of drawn cards from the deck. This was my original concept for Poisonous Venom, but I ditched it when I realized it wasn't necessarily a negative or a positive for a fighter to redraw their entire hand. I don't think I'll use it now, but thought I'd mention it. I'll probably ending up with going with Option A from above... the Damage of a Poisonous Venom card is equal to half it's value.

Peace, Errin : )

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Reading this back, I've realized my immediate plan

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 18:06.

Here's how I plan to alter Mutant MACE Lite now:

Remove the 'no +1 Move' restriction to Acrobatic Agility and Lightning Reflexes, then get rid of Increased Movement.

Reword the Bestial Strength rule to be +1 Damage to any successful Strike or Blast.

Create an Animal Mutation called Natural Weaponry which is a +1 to Strike.

Reword the Regeneration rule to be the exact same as the Invigoration rule, then get rid of Invigoration. That or keep the word/mutation Invigoration and get completely rid of Regeneration.

Create an Animal Mutation called Sharpened Senses which is a +1 to hit when using a Strike or Blast, but not a +1 to Damage.

Reword Poisonous Venom to mean that the card played is only worth half it's value in Damage. That way, it weakens the overly powerful mutation as well as giving it an extra cost of having to use a high value card at half value in order to be effective with Poisonous Venom.

At least that's the plan for now. Off to execute it...

Peace, Errin : )

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Done and Done

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 18:27.

Only took a second to make the new pdf for the updated Mutant MACE Lite. It is now uploaded and available for download.

I made every change I said I would exactly along the lines of my previous comment. I think it might be close to being complete, but will wait for more feedback before deciding so.

Peace, Errin : )

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Mutants, Block and Dodge

Submitted by Relentless96 on Thu, 2007-09-13 22:02.

I really like where this supplement is at right now. They were small changes you made, but you can see the huge difference it made to the feel of each power. Differentiating between CV and Damage allows a lot of flexibility.

In regards to the current Poison, it is still powerful, but no longer unbalanced (which is great). In my previous example of 1 Damage being dealt and a Ace being played, the Damage would be 8, which could mean only one card being discarded (depending on what they had in hand). I think the way you have worded the Venom means that a player would discard cards from the Strike first, then discard cards due to the Venom. I think, for fairness sake, the Damage should stack for a single total (two guarenteed cards is a huge advantage).

Glad you replaced Regeneration. I was going to comment before, but did not have time. The current rule is still powerful, but not overly complex.

I really like the way you have done this. It would be interesting to play a game with these rules, as the random element is a good way to break the ice for players (Stretching Limbs? I know, I will be a Octopus!).

Final note is on Feral Fury. It is obviously the most powerful ability, but the fact that you do not redraw a card has made it a balanced and characterful power. I think you are really starting to grasp what works and what doesn't in MACE, as it is a really easy game to unbalance. I look forward to playing with these rules and posting about them here.

Good work!

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Oops, Block and Dodge!

Submitted by Relentless96 on Thu, 2007-09-13 22:09.

I almost forgot, I was going to comment on Card Value and Damage, particularly in relation to a Strike.

Strike
When a character targets a player with a Strike, they are automatically dealt the CV in Damage. A lot of games have hit and miss style systems, but the idea here is to make the rules more clear cut. When a player Blocks or Dodges, they are trying to reduce or nullify this Damage.

Block
The wording of Block is the simplest in that it reduces the Damage dealt by an amount equal to its CV. So, if a player was dealt 9 Damage, and played a 7, they would still take 2 Damage. Note that at no time a Block takes into account what the CV of the opponents Strike is.

Dodge
Dodge is a little different. A player plays a card equal to or higher than the CV of the opponents Strike to NULLIFY all Damage. So, if a character was dealt Damage by a character with Bestial Strength, say a 9 of Spades (10 Damage), they would only need to play a Hearts of 9 or more to completely negate that Damage (no matter how high it is).

The reason I explained the above is to show the distinction between how you choose to defend yourself against various attacks. Just somthing I picked up on when you had your inspiration to update Mutant MACE.

Cheers!

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Thanks

Submitted by ErrinF on Thu, 2007-09-13 23:11.

The distinction between Block and Dodge helped clarify things a lot as far as Damage is figured out.

So, all the wording seems pretty good so far on the new version of Mutant MACE Lite? Great. Yes, I did throw in that limitation to Feral Fury on purpose, wherein if you used it to double a Jokers value, you could not draw a new card in it's place as usual. I did this for two reasons: One, the mutation was quite strong. Two, I needed the 'double Joker' thing to be optional, so that a Feral Fury character could still use a Joker the normal way. Feral Fury is actually extremely deadly if done right, so I had to alter it to make it more complex. I think it worked out fine.

I also HUGELY like the changes I made as far as Bestial Strength, Natural Weaponry, and Sharpened Senses. Stuff that needed to go (Increased Movement and Regeneration) went, and that definitely improved things. What really helped was you pointing out the Strike/Damage differentiation for Bestial Strength.

So, I would say the only thing Mutant MACE Lite needs for me to call it complete is a final version of Poisonous Venom. So, instead of being a card that is it's own separate Damage, you think the card played for Poisonous Venom should be added to Damage for a successful Strike? That might be all it needs. I also wonder if, instead of the fighter with Poisonous Venom playing a card that then has half it's CV added to the Damage, the Poisonous Venom fighter simply can declare that, once per Combat when a successful Strike is made, the victim of the Strike must discard one card from their hand after dealing with the Damage as normal.

To re-iterate, here are the options for Poisonous Venom:

a)Once per Combat, when a successful Strike is made, you may play one card from your hand which is then replaced by you drawing a new card. Add half of the CV (rounded up) of the card you played to the Damage caused by the Strike.

b)Once per Combat, when a successful Strike is made, you may choose to have the fighter that was hit lose one card from their hand after they deal with Damage as usual.

Seems to me, and I assume you'll agree, that Option A is the better one. What do you think? I'll wait to hear back from you, then will alter Poisonous Venom as appropriate. Very cool to be one revision away from being done. I hope this has been as helpful an exercise for you as it's been for me. I'd be interested to hear how you might adapt this variant for the regular, non-Lite MACE rules. Then again, there is no impotus on you doing anything with this variant. I'm just happy to have made it for MACE Lite, and it is totally up to you whether or not you want to incorporate the idea for anything else.

Thanks for the guidance and feedback. I think I have been able to make a pretty effective variant for your excellent game. We should both be proud... I know I am. And here you thought I'd been discouraged... nope, just set on the right path. LOL

Peace, Errin : )

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Option A) would be best

Submitted by Relentless96 on Fri, 2007-09-14 02:20.

I feel that it has an advantage over option b in that playing a higher card has better results. The only slight modification I would make is to have it round down, otherwise a King would count as 7 (which is the same as an Ace). This ensures that Ace is the top card possible.

In regards to modifying Mutant MACE for the final version, I think it is clear that there would be no need. What you have provided here could easily be transplanted to the new one, as it will use the same core engine. I think that this is the best aspect of Mutant MACE, it is extremely "plug and play".

I will play with your rules soon to give some extra feedback, but from reading it I think it is safe to say that it is done :)

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Thank you very much for all the guidance

Submitted by ErrinF on Fri, 2007-09-14 03:59.

Turns out most of my confusion over MACE was my lack of Fighter Cards and Tokens in my RPG pdf collection. I basically had a different concept for what fighter cards were, a concept that was quite mistaken. Still, all my confusion might have been worthwhile if it helped get the ball rolling for you making a 'complete' version of MACE. While MACE is a great, playable, easy-to-get-the-basics-down game, it's nuances are a little more complex, so the more clearly the entire system can be explained, the better.

I have indeed changed Poisonous Venom to option A. I totally spaced on the round up, round down thing (I actually meant to have it round down, and typed it wrong in my haste), plus I forgot that it kind of adds an extra cost to Poisonous Venom in that cards with high values are the best ones to play. Then again, I was leaning towards A the whole time, and merely put option B out there as a last resort.

Anyway, the new and probably final version of Mutant MACE Lite has been uploaded and is available for download here. The only thing to ponder now is if I should remove the 'Lite' terminology if this is indeed worthy of non-Lite MACE. I might even change the title to Teenage Mutant MACE if I take the Lite out, though I do kind of prefer the much more straightforward Mutant MACE. Any opinions on such? Looks like the design part is finished, and now it is just a case of wording and final touches.

Now that we are near the end of this brief project, thanks again for inviting me to do this. This was a slight challenge/struggle for me to focus my gamemaking skills on somebody else's RPG system, but I ended up enjoying it a lot. MACE is a cool system, and I was able to add to it what I wanted... basically, that players could create TMNT-type fighters, and that passive abilities (as opposed to active ones such as the fighter cards have) could be introduced to the MACE world. Plus fundraw.com came through with some really cool artwork! I'm very proud of what I was able to add to your game, and I had a great time doing it, even if I was puzzled a little in the beginning and not sure if I would pull this off. But, thanks to a little teamwork, I was able to make Mutant MACE be a very cool variant.

Enjoy!

Peace, Errin : )

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And by the way...

Submitted by ErrinF on Fri, 2007-09-14 04:17.

Consider Mutant MACE Lite as a 'prize' from me for 'winning' the 2007 character sheet challenge. No, it was not officially a contest, nor do I view any of the submissions as winners or losers (it's truly been a great group of submissions), but MACE Lite was one of the 'top' entries for the 2007 challenge, in my humble opinion. I was tempted to unofficially (and unannouncedly) hand out some prizes at the end of the year for various submissions, but opted not to. Still, that sentiment lives in Mutant MACE Lite. It's not only a cool variant, but my way of saying thank you for adding the excellent MACE Lite to my one page RPG challenge for 2007.

Thank you!

Peace, Errin : )

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What a prize!

Submitted by Relentless96 on Fri, 2007-09-14 18:07.

I promise you that I am extremely happy to see someone else contribute to my idea's. I am glad you think so highly of MACE, but I am glad you had said competition, otherwise I might have never done anything solid with MACE. So, I got two prizes, one was finishing my work, the other was you doing a supplement for me. Thankyou.

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Cool

Submitted by ErrinF on Sat, 2007-09-15 18:18.

You're welcome, Aaron, and thank you. This was a lot of fun. I especially liked the artwork I found to go with the variant, as it perfectly captured what I was looking for.

I think I will keep Mutant MACE Lite as is, rather than remove the 'Lite' from it. Sound good? I figure that way, I can wait to take the 'Lite' out after you finish compiling MACE. I truly hope that a full MACE pdf file will be available in the near future. It's a great game, and it will be even better once it is all compiled and explained in it's entirety.

Peace, Errin : )