To anybody interested, I was thinking of designing a new free RPG from the ground up here with collaborative help from whomever wants to create the game with me. We'll figure out who adds what as we go along, and I'll try to get the ball rolling with this blog entry.
The game I'm thinking of creating has the tentative title of Ogre Magi. It will be based on the ogre magi monsters of the original AD&D, though without the 'Japanese ogre' terminology; The ogre magi culture will have some oriental influence but will mainly be in a medieval setting. I figured the ogre magi would make an interesting fantasy subject, and that such a RPG would incorporate physical might, martial combat/weaponry, magical ability, and cunning trickery to create a wellrounded game dynamic.
I think the best way to create this RPG collaboratively is to sectionalize it so that different people can make different sections if they so choose. Here's the sections as I see them:
Setting/World, Character Creation/Attributes, Actions/Conflict Resolution, Combat/Weapons, Magic/Spells, Monsters/NPCs, Campaigns/Adventures. I added a lot of backslash options because I'm not sure if they will be seperate sections or part of the same section. Also, the sections I list are just the basics, and there's plenty of room to add whatever section people can think up.
Besides the sections, here are some basics I've thought up to get the game-creating started:
The game will be played entirely with twenty-sided dice, aka d20's. That will allow for a slightly more complex feel and make the game more percentile-based without using percentile dice (aka d10's). The game will actually need only one d20 rolled at a time though, and will not use multiple d20 rolls all at once.
Ogre Magi characters will not have character classes, but will instead be defined by three main attributes: Might for combat purposes, Magic for spell purposes, and Cunning for trickery purposes. Might, Magic, & Cunning are all tentative titles for those attributes, and will probably change to something else.
Part of the game dynamics will be having attrition be a factor, as Combat wears out one's Might, Spells wear out one's Magic, and Tricks are limited by how high one's Cunning is. Such an attrition factor allows each aspect/attribute to effect the other more strongly, and will give the game it's basis for most of it's conflict resolution.
Combat is to be similar to martial artists dueling with weapons. Only, the weapons of the Ogre Magi will be arcane and imbued with unique powers depending on the weaponry. Different ogre magi will be skilled in different weapons. Brute strength will be a factor in combat as well. Think of the ogre magi society as being similar to the Klingons of Star Trek, only armed with fantastic weapons instead of futuristic ones.
Magic will have strict parameters, as the ogre magi from the original AD&D have a pretty distinct number of spells they can use. The type of spells the ogre magi will be able to cast can do the following: fly/levitate, become invisible, create darkness, change shape/polymorph, regenerate/heal, charm/hypnotize, induce enchanted sleep in others, change into gaseous form, and create a cone of freezing coldness. All magic for the game should fit into those parameters, though variety within those parameters is great. Consider certain ogre magi to be skilled in certain spells just as some of them are skilled in certain weapons rather than other weapons.
Trickery will mainly be used to counter the combat skills, magic spells, and trickery of others. It is also used as a general assessment of a character's intelligence, and can be used to effect most any aspect of the game, though at a cost, as it is an attrition-based system. An ogre magi has only so many tricks up their sleeve on a given day.
Monsters will basically be that of the original AD&D variety, though I'm thinking selective use of which appear in the game will help define the RPG better. All monsters should be ones an ogre magi would fight (i.e pick on your own size being the rule), though NPC adventurers (such as humans and humanoids of the D&D character class variety) could pop up as opponents as well. Then again, it may be interesting to keep humans and such out of the picture. Some of the AD&D monsters I'd like to see in this game include Manticores, Ettins, Nagas, and Owlbears, to name a few. Monsters will have their own Might, Magic, and Cunning to define them, as well as their own 'weapons' and 'spells'.
So, that is what I've got for starters for the Ogre Magi RPG. I'd like to create it exclusively within the blog format here collaboratively with other RPG Labratory participants that are up for the challenge. Once it's done, we can put it in book form here and make it available as a free pdf at 1km1kt.net as well, with all contributors properly creditted.
Any takers? Anybody interested in creating this game with me? I guess I can finish it on my own if need be, but the whole idea is to make it with others here at RPG Labratory. We have plenty of time to do so. Thanks. : )
Ogre Magi
Where Ogre Magi RPG stands as of now
Looks like we've got the basics down. I'm going to be a little occupied with another game I'm making here, so I'm going to let this one sit and see if anybody else wants to contribute. I'll still be around, but I'll have to contribute at a slower pace. If anybody else wants to pick up the slack, go for it, but I'm fine with slowly writing this game.
Character Creation and Attributes
Here's a rough idea of how characters might be created and which attributes may determine gameplay.
To create an ogre magi character, the player will have to roll a d20 six times, denoting the result of each. After the rolls are made, the lowest three results are discarded. The highest three results are then assigned by the player to the player's three initial attributes, matching each attribute with a corresponding result. The three initial attributes are Might, Magic, and Cunning.
Once the initial attributes are determined, the secondary attributes are determined. The secondary attributes are Battle Points, Spell Points, Trickery Points, and Life Points.
Battle Points are equal to the ogre magi's Might multiplied by 3.
Spell Points are equal to the ogre magi's Magic multiplied by 3.
Trickery Points are equal to the ogre magi's Cunning multiplied by 3.
Life Points are equal to the ogre magi's Battle Points plus Spell Points plus Trickery Points.
So those will be the attributes and how a character starts out with them. After attributes are determined, a character will choose weapons and spells to define the ogre magi further, which I'll have to figure out later.
Looks Good
Aside from a little rewording, that all makes sense. Though, I would have to ask - at what rate do you see the attrition taking place? In my initial offering, I saw the points pools as probably no more that 10-20, while here they can be up to 60. I also saw each change taking only one point - though once was free to pump a lot of points into a single use if they wanted - whereas with the higher total, individual costs for range/damage might be helpful (it costs more to increase duration than area for instance)
Are the pools rapidly drained, but easily regained, or a slower regenerating resource? Will this be roll under or roll plus attribute vs. difficulty - or a third possibility?
Attrition range
I was using the equation of attribute x 3 in order to create a more broader pool of points. I thought it would give me more room to assign attrition costs to weapon and spell use, and would also represent having a larger reserve in a game about large monsters. The happy medium might be to have the equation be attribute x 2. That would bring it all into a more manageable number of attrition points. I think I'm going to go with the x2 equation thanks to your suggestion. Sound like a reasonable compromise between both approaches?
As for how points will regenerate, they will regenerate slowly, but the rate is doubled if partaking in actions that would do so regarding the type of point being regenerated, as per a suggestion of yours. Of course, there will be magical healing as well.
Spending attrition points will come in two forms: exertion and over-exertion. Exertion is paying a minimum number of points to use a certain weapon, spell, or trick. Over-exertion is paying a number of points above the minimum in order to increase the parameters of the weapon, spell, or trick used.
It'll take a litttle more work, but the overall system is getting there. Thanks for the input.
Possible Point Costs
That certainly seems a happy medium. I'm not sure if its a bit excessive to use points every time you do something, or if it should be just when you want to boost it.
To keep it as simple as possible, I'd probably say we should have broad categories rather than individual costs. Say, swinging a long sword/a simple spell like light/ or subtle misdirection is one point, a claymore/offensive spell/? for two points, and three for really big weapons/healing/?.
Should small things like daggers have no cost in points, so you can use light items even if you're tired, or should the costs above be pushed up one to make room for a light item/dagger category?
There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.
123
I don't think it's excessive to have at least 1 point spent each time a weapon, spell, or trick is used, and it wouldn't be much of an attrition system if it had 0 point cost actions. I too was thinking something along the lines of 1-2-3 depending on intensity of weapon, spell, or trick. The minimum cost of such would also determine the maximum of over-exertion to be a matching number to the mimimum so as to make the most points that can be spent on a weapon, spell, or trick equal to double the minimum. That all fits in well with the attribute x 2 equation for figuring out starting point values.
As for small weapons, they won't really exist among the ogre magi. Medium size will be about the smallest category, so the point spread would be more like 1 for medium, 2 for large, and 3 for extra large. I guess it's a matter of perspective, but the ogre magi would most likely prefer hefty weapons. Then again, point cost won't necessarily mean size, as the weapons will all be arcane and have some sort of rune/bane unique to them.
Regarding healing, I'm thinking the rule will be that an ogre magi can heal 1 of each type of point every 10 minutes or so, but may double one particular type of point to heal back if engaging in a proper activity focussed on such points. Life points may have slightly seperate rules for healing, but for the most part will be similar to other points.
Good point
So what would combat look like? You heal one point every 10min, one combat is... 6 ten second rounds, with 6 attacks/6 defenses, -(12-2)0 points, so you need to rest for one or two hours? Do you have a system in mind yet? It might be a little too early to quibble about numbers now.
I'll have to defer to your take on what weapons Magi society finds acceptable. The Ogres I'm most familiar with prefer tactical cruise missiles and mass-drivers with a range of 4.5 miles, backed up by rapid firing close assault weapons to deal with the infantry.
Sorry. Its been hard to go this long without referencing SJ games.
There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.
O.G.R.E.M.A.G.I.
Maybe we can make a futuristic version of this game once it's done.
Combat would be in rounds that might be longer than 10 seconds. 15 or 20 seconds may be better. Likewise, I'm thinking points should heal back either every 15 minutes or every 20 minutes. Any opinion on 10, 15, or 20 being the standard? I wonder if 20 would fit for d20 based game, but then again 10 fits into a d20 frame as well.
As far as combat, magic, and trickery, I think it would go something like this... Weapons either damage Life points entirely, or they do half damage to Life points and half damage to a different type of point. A vampiric weapon might do half damage to Life points and the other half of the damage adds to the wielder's Life points. Spells would target either one type of point entirely or split the damage two, maybe three, ways between different types of point. A heal spell could add to the caster's Life points. Tricks would directly effect one type of point, either adding to the trickster's points or subtracting from the trickee's points. There may be a secondary effect to some tricks.
I'm thinking it'd be good to have the game include 10 arcane weapons, 10 magic spells, and 10 fiendish tricks. Ogre Magi characters will probably begin the game proficient in 3 of each type: weapons, spells, tricks. I'll have to start working on getting a rough idea of what those might be, but feel free to throw out any suggestions.
I think conflict resolution (combat and otherwise) will involve die rolls in that a d20 is rolled and added to the ogre magi's Might, Magic, or Cunning and compared with an opposition roll of a d20 added to opposing attribute from a monster or spell. High roll succeeds, low roll fails, tie means a reroll. Other conflict resolutions may include rolling a d20 and trying to get a result equal to or lower than the ogre magi's attribute being tested.
The other questions I have for conflicts are what initiative and movement will be. I think an ogre magi's inititative would depend on whatever attribute the ogre magi or monster will be using that round. Movement should be based on Life points, with an ogre magi moving slower the more damage they are. Of course, at zero Life points, an ogre magi won't be moving at all. Weapons, spells, and tricks may also effect initiative and movement.
It seems to me most of the system is getting fleshed out at this point. Thanks for the help.
p.s. I wonder if it should just stay with Might, Magic, and Cunning for the attributes or if there are better names.
From 1km1kt part 1
Lets see - points of an attribute can be spent to buy or change aspects. For example, the basic spell fireball has a range of 10 meters, a radius of 1 meter, and a damage of 4. one point of the magic attribute can be spent to change one of those parameters. If you really want a big fireball, you could spend multiple points, but once you're out, they don't come back until... something. Prayer, eating, accomplishing some sort of task - rather than just sleeping or studying, it should be some activity that can be actively played rather than glossed over.
Similarly, the battle attribute can be spent to increase the weapons range, damage, or an armor's resistance. When its gone, you need to sharpen your weapons, train a bit, find a blacksmith. The more you push yourself in combat, the more upkeep you need, rather than buying a sword and forgetting about it.
Each point of trickery can negate someone else's point spent. A feint in combat, a test of magic wills. Misdirection of senses during a con job. Drinking, partying, kicking back and being with family restores this trait.
In short, you need a life outside of dungeon delving to regain your abilities
Part Two
I was thinking of saving the book form for after it was all sorted out via the blogs. I'll check into if starting it as a book now is a better option. Maybe I'm confusing the two, but I was under the impression that the blog form would be more accessible for people to leave comments on and to collaborate on.
Thanks for all the suggestions. Feel free to throw out any 'official' contributions/suggestions over at the Ogre Magi blog at RPG Lab. That blog is kind of a rough draft of the RPG in progress. People are more than welcome to throw in suggestions even if they don't want to be official contributors to the Ogre Magi game.
I was thinking very similar for the attrition/attribute rules, except I was thinking just basic exertion of points to effectively use certain weapons or spells. You bring up a very interesting aspect of over-exertion, in that the ogre magi can exert themselves extra to widen the parameters of whatever weapon or spell is being used. We saw eye to eye on how trickery/cunning would function in that it will mainly negate effectiveness in battle, magic, and other's trickery, though now I'm wondering if there should be specific tricks just as there will be specific weapons and spells.
I'm also thinking of having an attribute akin to hit points that will be determined by the other attributes combined. The life/hit point attribute will have attrition when it takes damage by combat, magic, or trickery. When it's depleted, the ogre magi is finished, whereas depletion of other types of attrition points merely mean the ogre magi cannot use the respective weapons, spells, or tricks.
Monsters for Ogre Magi
Looking through my third edition AD&D Monster Manual, here's what I come up with for possible monsters for this game: Beholders, Bugbears, Centaurs, Chimeras, Efreetis, Ettins, Hydras, Manticores, Minotaurs, Nagas, Otyughs, Owlbears, Purple Worms, Rakshasas, Rocs, Ropers, Salamanders, Shambling Mounds, Sphinxes, Troglodytes, Trolls, Umber Hulks, Unicorns, Wyverns, and Yetis. No dragons, but an oriental dragon might fit in. No giants, but a storm giant could be interesting. This is an extended list to start off with, and will most likely be dwindled down by the time the Monsters section for this game gets made.
Any suggestions on which should stay and which should go? Any monsters missing from the list that should be in there?
Possible final list of monsters
Here's where I'm at now with which monsters to actually have in the game after dwindling down the original list and making new additions: Chimeras, Ettins, Manticores, Nagas, Purple Worms, Rakshasas, Trolls, Ki-rins, Storm Giants, and Pan Lungs (Oriental dragons). I've also decided to include giant animals and insects, adding Giant Beetles, Giant Spiders, Giant Wolves, Giant Snakes, and Giant Toads to the monster list. I figure the insects and the animals would give the ogre magi more shapeshifting options.
The new list also allows me to make a wandering monsters chart for the game using a d20 for rolls. The chart might end up like this:
1 thru 5 = Hostile ogre magi
6 = Giant Toad
7 = Giant Beetle
8 = Giant Wolf
9 = Giant Spider
10 = Giant Snake
11 = Troll
12 = Ettin
13 = Manticore
14 = Chimera
15 = Purple Worm
16 = Rakshasa
17 = Naga
18 = Ki-rin
19 = Storm Giant
20 = Pan Lung
Any input, anyone? I'm pretty sure this is what I'd like to go with for the monsters that will be in Ogre Magi.
I have an idea
hello errinF i have and idea for a monster, what about zombie,i have it all thought out,he comes from the ground with his hands out and his head is tilted. After you attack him the first time he starts to grow and becomes a giant that steps on you taking half your life.also when you finally defeat him he catch a blaze and falls turning into ashes.
Interesting idea
I didn't quite foresee a monster like that in the game, but it's such an imaginative creation that I think it needs to bee incorporated to Ogre Magi RPG. I'll work on completing the game down the road, and when I do I'll find a way to add this zombie monster of yours. Thanks for the contribution!
Yuan Ti
The Yuan Ti are the snakemen from the AD&D module Dwellers of the Forbidden City. Yuan Ti are basically large snakes with arms, some having magical powers. I'm thinking of including them as monsters, in which case I'll have to bump a monster from the list. If the Yuan Ti do get used, I think either the Trolls, Chimeras, or Ettins will have to go. I'm thinking Chimera would be the best to replace with Yuan Ti.
Looks good
An impressive list - missing one thing. Humans. The different looking gaijin from outside with genocidal tendencies?
Actually, that’s probably not necessary, but if we're breaking from the D&D system, how closely do we portray the antagonists? This of course brings in the philosophy of does the society define what they see as a challenge, or do the outsiders and their threat define the society?
On second thought
Months later, I see your point a little better. Meeting up with hapless humans could be a fun part of Ogre Magi, though the human will just be one of many 'monsters'. Then again, it may be the case that humans simply cannot match the monsters of Ogre Magi, and aren't formidable enough to be listed among the more dangerous monsters. I'll have to see how much room I have in the monster chart when it's all said and done. Perhaps a human subtable will be incorporated.
Peace, Errin : )
On the fence when it comes to humans
I can't quite decide whether to include human antagonists or not, but I'm leaning towards the 'no' column. While it will still somewhat be the realm of D&D, I think it should reflect the monster side of things, as the human adventurer side of things has already been well delved into. If the ogre magi have societal enemies, it will most likely be another race of monsters, such as Bugbears, Trolls, and Troglodytes. I kind of want all monsters in the game to be of the large variety.
I would imagine that the ogre magi society is tribal and feudal, so they would view monsters according to how it will benefit the tribe. Being a martial lot, I assume most monsters will be hunted down and conquered by the ogre magi, either as food, a source of treasure, or to be used as magic ingredients for spells (though I won't include such ingredients in the magic system). I think there will also be the distinct possibility that ogre magi player characters will come across enemy ogre magi to fight. Indeed, I'm sure there's a lot of infighting within each tribe. I also wonder if there should be regular ogres that are not magi and consider the ogre magi their enemy.
The more I look at my initial monster list, the more I want to selectively dwindle it down. I now think oriental dragons and storm giants should be included, but those will be the only dragons and giants, though dragon-ish monsters such as hydras, chimeras, and wyverns will probably stay in the picture, as will giant types such as Ettins. I'm thinking monsters that will invoke powerful battles with the ogre magi should stay,and those that don't quite fit the setting should go. I was intentionally generous when making the initial monster list, but now it needs to be more distinct. Any input on what monsters should stay and which should go? Most any with magical abilities are probably going to stay.
A time to revisit this game
While cleaning out my blog section here, I was reminded of the Ogre Magi game that I've been letting sit on the backburner. While I'm still pre-occupied with my Adventuria RPG, I'm beginning to think I'd like to get this game complete by the end of the year. Thanks again to Jason for helping me get this far conceptually with the game, and anybody else interested is free to pitch in with suggestions. If I am able to, I will finish Ogre Magi RPG by the end of the year and have it available here in book form.
Peace, Errin : )
http://www.1km1kt.net/Errin-Famiglia.htm
Adventuria Online RPG