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RPG Laboratory

Warhammer or Warcraft?

I like to classify styles of gameplay for swords and sorcery fantasy RPGs into 2 types: Warhammer-style, or Warcraft-style. Both styles are similar but have crucial differences.

The Warhammer-style requires deeper storytelling, with darker, more dangerous evils to contend with. The evil usually tempts the characters and more often than not, one of the characters will succumb to the temptation. The battles are usually more deadly, with little or no chance of resurrection upon death (except for some sort of divine intervention) and even good deeds are usually not answered kindly. The NPCs usually distrust the PCs and may even be completely hostile.

The Warhammer-style challenges the players' virtues as heroes and I feel is useful at times but if used constantly, will dishearten the players.

The Warcraft-style does not need as deep of a story, but instead contains light humor, often times poking fun at facets of medieval or fantastical life (i.e. why is my shoulderplate so gigantic?). Evil is not so dark, but is usually some misguided fool who stumbled upon a mysterious artifact. The heroes are paragons of virtue, unbeatable legends who can always be counted on. The NPCs admire the PCs, maybe even worship them.

The Warcraft-style is a a good gameplay style for those who like light-hearted games and are playing for the fun of it. But sometimes the roleplaying and storytelling suffers from Warcraft-style play because too much humor is injected into the game and is not taken seriously anymore. Sometimes the players will gain oversized egos and bloated heads, and will require a dip into the Warhammer-style play to humble them, to make them understand that they cannot always save everybody.

In truth, it is up to the DM (GM, or whatever you're calling it) to make the calls on what he (she) thinks is good gameplay. I dislike metagame thinking and want the players to develop their characters as they play, often using the metaphor of a TV series to compare with the game. But others may feel differently.

I just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts about this were.

xDungeonMasterx

Graph Zeppelin

I'm inclined to believe that an single axis of comparison is insufficient to really examine role-playing.

Of course the proverbial gorilla in the room is GNS theory. Some are for the mental challenge, some for the story, and others for the world building. (And then there is the commentary about a fourth group thats just there for the Cheetos and friends.)

Another useful lens would be a two directional graph - like the one in this XKCD comic. (Admittedly, the one examining political affiliation is a better example of the type, but I couldn't find a link.)

One axis (lets say Y) would be "freedom from consequence" - or level of heroism if you will. Does the game emphasize the survivability of the characters, encouraging stunts, and jumping into the fray - or is there a good chance of injury physical/mental/emotional for reckless action.

  • Teenagers From Outer Space is one extreme, as characters can't die - no matter what happens - thus helping protecting those who would preform cartoon-ish actions.

  • Call of Cthlulu would be well towards the other end, as its often expected that someone will go insane or get eaten, to the point of a prevailing hopelessness.
  • Paranoia (for probably the only time in its existence) simulates the middle ground - for characters do die quickly, but have multiple clones, so the danger to the player is mitigated.

Our other axis would be one of scope or world size. Are events mainly driven by personal problems and intra-personal relations, or is it a large universe with the player's actions affecting hundreds or thousands.

  • Many of the games from White Wolf focus on personal salvation/damnation.

  • Star Wars tends to encourage larger than life plots hopping from planet to planet.
  • D&D often seems to be about personal advancement, but as one gains power the scope of their actions reverberates more. (No one is going to miss a few kolbolds, bight one less dragon is a big deal)

This chart may end up a scatter plot or with multiple lines as we look at finer divisions. For example there could be two points plotted on the Y scale - consequences for the world versus personal ones, degree of detail devoted to character and number of attributes would be a scope plot...

Anyone want to help refine the theory?

There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.

Enlightening...

That was a very enlightening theory on role-playing. Thank you very much CA, I can always count on getting something quite useful from you.

Is there a class I can take that examines those kinds of theories?

"So I say to the guy, 'How you going to get the tank down to the planet?' And he goes, 'I'll just put it on the ship.' And I go, 'If you've got a ship that can carry a tank, why not just put guns on the ship and use it instead?'" -Caboose

I wish there was!

I'd love to take it or teach it if such a class existed. There might be a few courses on game design, though the only time I found one that was for table top games rather than computer programing, it was through King's College in London (I'm outside Chicago, so that does me little good.)

There are a good number of sites on the web dedicated to the discussion of role playing theory. Indeed, so far as I am aware, this discussion began on the net and not the halls of academia - though it was an attempt to create something akin to literary theory that would be acceptable in a scholastic setting. The Forge was a major development center for "GNS" and "The Big Model". As previously stated, the former is about the types of gamers and their expectations, while the latter is about the social contract between players and the layers of the experience.

John H. Kim's RPG Site has a section of discussion about these games that provides a number of links to other theorists. Hamster Prophecy, despite its rather odd name, also appears to be a good source for discussion - or links to more.

Thank you for the praise, I'm glad you found my model helpful.

There is a fine line between hobby and obsession. I seem to have lost sight of it some time ago.

It's about the Players

the job of the GM in almost every case that I can think of is to ensure that the players have fun playing. how you drive your game entirely depends on what your particular group of players want out of the experience.

If you have a group of players that are just love to kill monsters and gather treasure getting into the deep psychological darkness of a villans mind with them will likely leave them yawning

on the opposite side if your group prefers to explore the depths of their character and the world around them, just throwing hordes of baddies at them will likely drive them off.

Unless you have people beating down your door to play and can pick and choose the players that fit the style of game you want to run, you have to know your audience and give them at least a little of what they want.

that being said a bored GM leads to a boring game! so finding players that fit your style is the only real way to get a long lasting campaign group together...

-Ob

Hmm

My games are more DM/GM oreinted. trying to nurture good roleplaying.